You Gon Listen

0:00:00
Welcome to You Gon' Listen at 91.5 KUNV. I'm your host, Karen King-Charles, and I'm here with my two guests, Aaron Lewis and Brianna Green. We're talking about Black Lives Matter today. So some context behind the Black Lives Matter movement. It's a movement for freedom, liberation, and justice for all black people. When the police were founded, they were used as a slave patrol to catch runaway slaves. Their foundation has been to target black people. Even though they have a new name, for modern day black folks, the police act very much the same. Police brutality against black people has never stopped. Black Lives Matter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin's murderer. Since then, the movement has never stopped demanding justice for many Black people murdered or brutalized by the police. There has been a resurgence of the movement after George Floyd's murder by the police on May 25, 2020, and has continued its force ever since. So before we get into the questions, I'd like to remind you that you're listening to You Go Listen at 91.5 KUNV. I'm your host, Karen Jean Charles, and I'm here with my two guests, Erin Lewis and Brianna Green, and we're talking about Black Lives Matter today. So, first of all, thank you all for coming. Can you tell me and the audience who you are and what your major is and what the Black Lives Matter movement means to you? I'm Erin. I am an early childhood education major. I actually just finished a semester. We balled out boys. But the Black Lives Matter movement to me is personal. As a black woman, it's very important to me. The first time that I really experienced it firsthand was we had a blackout day, it was a spirit day in my high school, and instead of actually just wearing black, all of us wore like the names of people who had been killed due to police brutality on like the backs of our shirts. And since then, it's just been something that I am very vocal about and very, it's very near and dear to my heart. How about you, Bri? Hi, you guys. My name is Brianna. I am currently a psychology major and Black Lives Matter means a lot to me also because I feel like the first time that I experienced it was with the Trayvon Martin shooting. And, you know, it was kind of far, but not that far away from me. It was a few hours away and I was in high school at the time and we literally, the kids, everybody, we walked out of class. We did a whole walkout and the news cast came out and reported on it and everything. And I feel like ever since then, I've just been a member of that community from here on out because it was so close and so personal and he was close to my age as well. So that really hit me close to home for sure. Damn, I like y'all high schools because y'all were activists in high school. In my high school, I was the only black person and I'm not the only one but one of a handful so usually I would be the only one in the class and it'd be so weird that people weren't reacting the way our family was reacting like you would go online and you would um you would hear about the injustice but then you would come to school people were talking about video games we're talking about what they did over the weekend, it doesn't affect them, but it's been affecting us. It's been affecting us for a long time. Yeah. So, what was your reaction to the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement in May? You know, I, so okay, obviously, like, I was upset at the circumstances. I was very upset that that is why it had to be the case. But it was also like, for me, seeing the amount of people who were like a part of the movement, who wanted those Black lives to, those people to be heard, who are just, who aren't in the community, but are also just like, who are in the community. It was nice to see that, like solidarity. Right. But it was frustrating given the circumstances and given the year that we're in. It just feels like there's been so much going on. It just felt like there was just one more thing we just had to add to the year and in the worst way possible. But I also liked that it also brought awareness to other situations that were going on that you hadn't heard too much about, which was really important as well.

0:04:45
Yeah, I have to agree.

0:04:46
I like that a lot of people and walks of life, we did come together and we supported and uplifted each other. But like Wren said, it was super, super frustrating to see that, you know, like we're trying to work on unifying and then here you go have people trying to divide us at the same time. So it was really frustrating. We just want to be heard. That's it, you know, like, that we don't want any problems, honestly. Yeah. And there were protests all across the country, which I was very proud of.

0:05:17
Right.

0:05:18
There was some of my friends, we organized a protest, the strip of Vegas. It was pretty small, though, because it was just us. But, yeah, it was I don't even know how to describe it. It was just very it was a frustrating couple of months and what was more frustrating to me was the people who would just be like you know yeah Black Lives Matter I'm gonna put in my bio but then I'm also gonna say the n-word when no one's looking and I'm also gonna not hear black voices I'm just going to post the little Instagram Black square and keep it pushing. Oh my gosh. How did y'all feel about seeing the people who appeared to be with the movement, but weren't actually? Man, when I tell you it was an eye opener, and I'm having a brain fart right now, but there's this term. It's like something activism, like, I forgot what it is. I see it on Twitter all the time. It's when you, like, in the public, you're pretending to be an activist and whatnot, but behind closed doors, you're not for the cause at all. And I feel like that's what a lot of people were doing, you know, because it was super divided. You were either with the cause or you were against it. And clearly people wanted to be with it to avoid any type of backlash or, you know, upset or anything like that. So I feel like people put the black squares up on Instagram just to be like, okay, I have black friends and they're probably watching. Let me just post this right quicker. Let me throw this in my bio to show that I'm for the people, but I'm a, you know, when we're hiding closed doors, I'm going to say the N word when nobody's here. And it's just like, you can't, you can't be on both ride the fence. You know what I'm saying? It's either one or the other. If you're gonna be an activist, be an activist in public and also behind closed doors as well. So it was frustrating to see that going on and it's obviously still going on, you know,

0:07:28
but, whoo, y'all, I don't know.

0:07:31
I don't know.

0:07:33
I think for me, and I remember telling you guys this when it happened, it was the uncropped black squares. Oh my goodness like oh, we just took somebody else's black square I just posted it like we're gonna notice. Okay, we see you we see you and we hear you loud and clear We know that you don't care Camera It was so confusing to me like I was like it was like they called it blackout Tuesday I remember waking up like 6 a.m. And all of my timeline, which is black. I said, let me log out for the day. I said this is not what I wanted. This is not what I needed. This don't help me. I said I need you to get out in the streets. If you're willing and able, get out in the streets. But I think also for me, you guys know that I live in Maryland, so I'm like really close to DC. And the one day of the summer that will always like will live in my head forever was when they did the little gas bombs out in, I think it was Lafayette Square I don't know where it was but near the church so that he could walk across the street and get the little photo op that day for me will be a part of my memory for as long as I live because I had friends who were out there I had friends who they were like yeah we weren't really doing anything we were just walking like like enjoying the vibe supporting one another uplifting each other and then all of a sudden it was just like they were throwing uh the little gas bombs at them. And I was like, that's insane. Like when you think about the fact that we're going through a respiratory pandemic, it's like you throwing stuff like that at people who are not doing anything to you for a photo op, where you just attempt and murder at this point from on top of what else you're already doing. And another thing that will stick out to me is, this is another thing that you guys often, I'm very asthmatic. So there was another girl. I can't remember where she lived, but she was in a different state. And she was also out protesting with friends. And they had thrown again, they had thrown the tear gas and she had an asthma attack and she died. And so I was like, you guys are throwing things like this at people, hurting them for a cause that's trying to stop pain. And it's not helping. It's just making it so much worse. And it's like, they're saying that the protesters are the ones that are being violent, but nine times out of ten, they're the ones being hurt, and it's like, hello, can you acknowledge that? Like, where's the violence, exactly? Yeah, that's like the violence ensues once they start throwing things and harming them, because we just want to be heard, like we don't need, we don't need your, uh, you were talking about the fake activism, I couldn't find the word either, but, uh, we don't need your black squares on Instagram, we don't need it in your bio, if you're not gonna actually go out and do anything or use your platform and actually speak up on it, we really don't want your help. You're not helping at all, you're just kind of making it worse. So how do you guys-

0:10:12
Come on, Paxton.

0:10:13
I'm sorry. So how do you guys feel about,

0:10:16
if we're gonna talk about the looting, the rioting, people have always brought this up and had a problem with it. In my opinion, it's completely justified, except for the people who are inciting violence against, like, small businesses and stuff like that. But even so, it can be replaced. People have insurance, but if we take into account what has been stolen from black people for generations, a target does not matter. And everyone in that target was insured. Everything in that target was insured. They can rebuild it in weeks. So how did y'all feel seeing people label the movement as violent instead of actually seeing what the movement was about? To answer your question, I agree with you 100% with the looting, and I feel like they have got a bad rep for that. Honestly, in my opinion, that was the nice side, you know what I'm saying? Just like the Target and all that stuff, I feel like we could have did way worse, okay? We could have burnt them cities down, we could have torched some stuff up, but we didn't. We only targeted big corporations that really don't care about us. And it's true, Target does not care about the movement at all. And I do feel bad for the people that, obviously do get hurt during the looting, like the employees and things like that, because it's not their fault. They're literally just doing their job. There's nothing they can do. But I just don't feel like the word violent and this movement should even be in the same sentence with each other, because that's not what we want. But obviously, when you keep pushing us and pushing us and pushing us and you're not hearing us, then what else are we going to do? We're going to make sure we're heard. We're going to make sure we're seen. And I'm glad that it was, like you said, it wasn't targeted towards small businesses. It wasn't targeted towards, you know, residences and things like that. It was towards big corporations because we know that they also are the problem these people are funding like the president and thing like that they don't care for the movement at all, so I was all for at the end of the day, honestly, but It's 50-50 with everybody. So I mean, did you have anything to add to that? So the first thing that I want to say is if you go back If you go back and look at my Twitter when the police station started burning you're gonna be like, oh my gosh, she's crazy. I was sitting there like, yes, burn it to the ground. And I was like, maybe not say that. I don't know if anybody's in the building, but you know, burn the building down. Don't hurt anybody, but burn the building down. The FBI was watching that night. They were. I was going to wake up and go on Taunomo Bay for saying that. But at the same time, like talking about Target, like even the guy, I think the CEO of Target or someone said that they didn't really care. They're like, this is more important. Yeah. What's going on in the building. But then I also take it from the standpoint of, okay, we saw that the looting was happening at the very beginning, but then the continued looting that had nothing to do with the Black Lives Matter movement. And like, when you when you look at the people who were starting the looting situation, it's like, okay, none of those people look like me. And I hate to say that. It's like, even people even I saw even white people on Twitter saying, they were like, okay, all of these people that are beginning the process of looting, and this is weeks after, this isn't the very beginning, this is after, they're like, all these people who are starting the looting, they don't look like they're part of the protest, they don't look like they really care about what's going on. And I say the people that look like me, but it could have been anybody, it really could have been people who look like me, and I'll stand by that, because I know sometimes when you see something that looks like, oh, okay, this is cool. And then you'd be like, oh, okay, I can do looting while they're doing this because nobody's gonna notice. And that's terrible. And like I said, anybody can have that mindset. I don't think it has to be just, you know, non-black people. I think that anybody who has a negative mindset and is using what's going on to like boost that negative mindset or those negative vibes can do whatever they want to. And for me, it just, it only makes the situation look bad. Like it only makes people think that the Black Lives Matter movement is violent, that anybody involved wants to hurt people. And that's not the case. Like a whole movement built around stopping the unnecessary killing of Black people, why would we want to hurt other people? Like I just don't understand the thought process behind that one. And it was nice to see those people who were not a part of the black community who were like, okay It doesn't look like it's only black people who are doing the looting like you have to now take a step back and realize Oh, this is just people who saw us out in the street and took advantage of that So it was nice to see those people stick up for it in that regard as well Because when you use your voice that you have to like kind of de-escalate situations It that's that's the kind of help we need like not just going out We also need your voice to like help us in situations like this where nobody's gonna believe us They're gonna see one black person be like, oh Everybody is a part of the same group and that's not ever the case. That's that's people are different. So let's talk about Breonna Taylor a Black woman murdered by police in her home while sleeping has of this podcast recording been denied justice by the legal system after months and months of protests demanding it in her name. I personally am angry and exhausted. I'm curious as to how you guys feel. Um, I'm right there with you. Honestly, it was so upsetting to see that the police that were, that took part, didn't get the persecution that they deserve, you know? And it's frustrating to see that. And you have so many people in the public rallying and, you know, trying to get their voices heard. They just, we just wanted justice. That's it. You came into our apartment and you just started shooting up the place, the wrong apartment at that. And we know what really, what really like blew me the most is that the fact that the neighbor got more justice than Breonna. That's what really blew me because apparently, you know, the bullets flew over to the next neighbor and the neighbor got injured or something like or could have got injured. I don't remember. But how did the neighbor get justice quicker than Breonna Taylor if she lost her life? And stuff like that just really makes me upset. And it was at around that same time that other names were coming up as well. And it's just like, okay, like, we need justice for everybody at this point. Like, what's not clicking? You know? Like, it was just really frustrating. Even to this day, these police officers are still out and about, probably still have their jobs. The officer probably got, what is it, like blood boiling, everything.

0:17:15
Right.

0:17:16
I finally found the word that we were both looking for,

0:17:19
Brie. It was performative activism. Performative, yes, thank you.

0:17:25
I found it.

0:17:26
But that's the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Breonna Taylor. And it's terrible because I just remember when all of this was going down, they're like, oh, we just unveiled this new mural. That's not gonna bring her back. That's not gonna get her justice for her family. Oh, we put her name on a t-shirt. That's nice and all so that we all know her name. But again, that's not gonna get her justice. That's not gonna help her family. So I just feel like it was enraging because it's like, you mentioned the neighbor got justice, but then I remember the fact that the one of the police officers, I think he wanted to sue or do something like that because of the bullet that flew at him and I'm like, huh? What how you still know what I don't understand. I was like, huh? And how are they gonna be like, yeah Yeah, this is this is the case. Let's take this one I just for me that was just like that was like that was a straw that broke the camel's back because at that point it's like Okay. Yeah a bullet flew at you, but ain't that your job like you're a police officer both fly police officers all the time You signed up for that. She did not sign up to get killed in her own home. And so, I mean, that's not justifying that. That's not justifying her boyfriend shooting at the police officer. None of that is justified. But my point is, you can't sue something for a hazard that you put yourself in. If you sign up to be a police officer, again, nine times out of ten, I'm going to keep saying that today, nine times out of 10, you're gonna get shot at like in the vicinity. Bullets are gonna fly past you. It's, it comes with the job. And so my thing is you can't sue every single person that shoots at you. So why did you choose to sue him in this case? And for me, it was like, that was like a slap in the face. I was like, wow. And here y'all go talk about some, we're gonna report on it. We're gonna let the world know that this is what's going on in that. But I just feel like, I just feel like there's a lot that has to be done with that. I mean, at this point, everybody who is listening knows her name, but that's not enough. We need answers. We need – I mean, her family deserves answers. They deserve to be able to get the closure, and I feel like the closure only comes when the person who caused the harm has to pay the consequences for that harm. And I kind of want to piggyback on what you said about how, you know, people were, you know, making t-shirts and things like that. I feel like at the beginning, the intent was in the right place. But after a while, people just kind of like flew off the train tracks. You know what I'm saying? Like, people started making memes and like, you know, trying to like, throw her name in there and stuff like that. I'm just like, okay, like, we, we get it. Like, this is not what we meant by we wanted your help, you know? So like I said, at the start, I saw that the meaning behind it was well, you know, but after a while, I was just like, okay, like y'all are taking this too far now, honestly. Right. And what really shook me the most when it comes to performative activism was there was this couple who makes jewelry and they took some glass from the looting and the rioting and then they were selling it as like glass necklaces, like have a piece of history. And they were selling it for like over $1,000. What?

0:20:38
What?

0:20:39
And can you guess what the skin color was? I'm sure you can. I'm just like, where are you putting the money at? Are you sending it to charities?

0:20:51
What are you doing with it?

0:20:52
What do you need?

0:20:53
And who is buying?

0:20:53
Who is buying a shard of glass for one gig? Okay, that's it. Their whole marketing ploy was to, you know, have this piece of history because this apparently would be looked back on like the civil rights movement and then you can say, hey, I have a shard of glass from that day. Now you're just trying to monetize off of people's trauma, like come on bro. Exactly. That's like somebody talking about, oh I have this old like selling shackles, like what are you talking about?

0:21:30
What?

0:21:31
What?

0:21:32
What shackles? Really? I'm sorry, that might have been a little extra, but like that's what it's making me think of, like you're trying to monetize off of people's trauma. And like Wren said, like, are you donating the money? Are you giving it back to the cause? Are you, you know, helping the homeless in your community? Like, what are you doing with that money? Because if you're just pocketing that, then you can go somewhere else with that, because that's ridiculous. Sards of glass, come on. So another thing about performative activism was the news, in my opinion. They reported on the Black Lives Matter movement for the views. They showed the looting, they showed the rioting, they interviewed people, asked them biased questions, and then painted the Black Lives Matter movement in the media in a horrible light. And as of today, Portland has been protesting for over 200 days for the Black Lives Matter movement, and no one has said anything on the news. And I just think, what do you guys think about that? I'll let you guys go first. It's crazy. Yeah. I feel like if it weren't for social media apps like Twitter, I would have no clue about what's going on in other parts of the world or even in the country right now or even up the road for me because I really do feel like the media, it's, I don't know how to say it, but the media is like, it's very, it goes very fast. You know, one day this story, the next day is another, the next is another. The media cycle?

0:23:19
Huh?

0:23:20
The media cycle? Right, right, right. And that's just how it's been all the time. They never really sit and talk about one story for too long. But I am thankful for other apps and outlets that do put things like that on blast. And it sucks because sometimes, like you said, things do get swept under the rug. Like I didn't know that Portland was still out there protesting. Like, that's amazing. For 200 and some days, you felt like that's crazy. That's crazy. And I haven't heard the news talk about Black Lives Matter at all. I know they were talking about it, like, during the height of the pandemic and stuff like that. But after that, you know, things started to die down. And I really do feel like once it's out of sight, it's out of mind. And I feel like that's also what's going on, too. You know, people aren't seeing it on the news anymore. They're not hearing about it anymore. So it's just like, okay, you know, it's done now. Like everybody's cool. We're happy-go-lucky again. But it's like, no, there's people still out in the streets being active and trying to get their voice heard. I think for me, that says a lot about Portland. The fact that they have been able to be, like, have been one of the only cities to, you know, really vocalize for this long. That says a lot, and you have to applaud those people because it's starting to get cold. I know it'd be cold up there. And I know that when it gets cold, you're like, okay, I don't really want to, I'm done with that. I'm done. Right, they're still going strong. And that's, you know, that's really commendable. And I and I have I heard about it up to a few weeks ago, but I didn't know that they were still because nobody talks about like we said nobody really brings it up. Um, I do agree though that the media was painting a picture that would get them views. Um, and I don't I don't I don't know. It's just like y'all And it and I feel like it goes both ways. They were painting a picture that was negative But then there was also like certain channels that would paint a picture that was positive But then it's like, okay you paint this positive picture. But what have you done? Have you stepped out the studio when you're off? Have you gone out and made your voice heard? Like reporting on it does not equal, you know, supporting the movement. So you can say all these things that are scripted, but at the end of the day, I mean, that doesn't really help. And I also think that in total, they were all portraying the looting as something, I feel like they should have portrayed that as its own entity I feel like they shouldn't have tried to put it in under the same headline which is what a lot of them I had noticed that we're doing like it would start off as okay so this is what's going on with the the protest and then boom okay so as you can see the places over here I boarded up just in case anybody wants to start looting and I'm like wow you just had to get that in there like wow you just it wasn't a positive thing to young people have been out all day in the heat, chanting and singing and cheering and all that stuff. And then boom, if we look over here, there's wooden boards on the windows. And that for me was like, what? How do you go? How do you shift that fast? Like, now people are going to be scared. Like, they're gonna be like, okay, here we go again, another night of fires everywhere. And it's like, that's not the goal. That's not it. So a lot of people are noticing that the youth is a different breed. We organize over social media, we raise awareness on issues that wouldn't have been talked about otherwise, we pressure our public figures to step up to the plate or we kick them to the curb. Is there a revolution coming for the youth? Are we ready for it? And if we're not, what can we do to get ready for it? Listen, I hope so. I really hope so. Yes. I'm laughing, that's not a funny question. I'm laughing because I'm like, I'm just remembering conversations that we've had, like personal conversations, and I'm like, front lines. I actually was like, I love front lines. But I definitely feel like at the hands of the youth, a revolution is definitely coming. Revolution imminent. I just don't know how it's going to play out. Because, you know, it's one thing, I don't know, I don't, all I'm thinking in my head is just them trying to overthrow the government, and that's, I'm scared of that. As much as it's a necessity, and it needs to happen because the government is flawed, I'm just like, oh my gosh, if the youth overthrowing the government,

0:27:30
might not be a smart idea.

0:27:31
It might be a little scary. But I definitely feel like this summer was the start to the real change. Because at this point now, all of the kids who would have been kids for real when the Black Lives Matter movement started, I mean, I was 13 when it started. I'm now almost 21. All of us who grew up in that time, we're all adults now, or almost to adulthood. And it's like, okay, this is our time. This is our time to shine. I don't know that we're ready. I think that we can get ready, but I don't know that we're ready right now. But I do think that something is going to happen. Something has to change at this point. And it's up to us really, because once the generation before us and the one before them, once they're completely gone, what's left? Just us. So if they can't make the change, we have to make the change. I agree with you 2 million percent. And the day that happens, I will be on the front line ready to stomp somebody out. Let me stop. No, honestly, I really do feel like the youth has been on everybody's neck. It don't matter if you're older, younger, or whatever. They are not playing around and I noticed that because y'all know I'm huge on TikTok or whatever and I found an app, but I really saw a lot of young kids come out on that app and voice their opinions about what's going on. And they're not for what's going on right now. So like you said, they were kids when they were younger, and now they're, you know, starting to transition into adulthood and stuff like that. And I really feel like they're starting to realize that, you know, maybe their parents' generation or their parents' generation before them is completely flawed. And the way that we've been doing things is just so old and traditional. And it's not the way that the world is now. The where we're going is completely different from where our parents came from or where our parents grew up in. And I feel like those kids are starting to realize that. And they're like, no, man, like something has to change because this cannot work. Especially for them when they get older, it's not going to work. So I really do feel like it's definitely gonna happen. And like Prince said, it's gonna be scary cause it's just like, I don't know what y'all got in mind, what you're gonna do,

0:29:48
but I really do feel like it's gonna happen for sure.

0:29:51
So I'd like to thank both of you for coming on the show.

0:29:55
Thank you so much.

0:29:56
And I'd also like to-

0:29:57
Thank you for having me.

0:29:59
No, for real, glad to be here.

0:30:01
Right.

0:30:01
I also like to thank our audience for listening to You Don't Listen at 91.5k UNV. I'm your host, Karen T. Charles, and I'm grateful for my two guests, Aaron Lewis He's a black gold babe, black babe Still can't be washed away He's a black gold babe, black babe Still can't be washed away

0:30:27
Not even in that Florida water

Transcribed with Cockatoo